Welcome to this page of interviews edited by Dino McGartland. Dino has been working tirelessly, tracking down Rory's old band members, family, and associates to bring you some exclusive insights into the world of Rory Gallagher. Check this page regularly for updates and new interviews.

We start with some archive interviews from the "Stagestruck" fanzine:

DONAL GALLAGHER INTERVIEW 13th July 1999

Four years after the passing of his brother Rory, Donal talks to STAGESTRUCK for the first time about his hopes and plans for the future:

Dino McGartland: Rory At The B.B.C. is the first new Rory Gallagher release in nine years. Can you tell us what exactly is contained in the new 2 CD set?

Donal Gallagher: Well, starting from the basis that Rory was the most recorded rock artist at the B.B.C. of his time. There was a wealth of material to work from, starting from the 1971 period onwards, up through to the mid Eighties. So in effect we were trying to create an album from material compiled and selected on the basis of quality, rarity or whatever, and obviously performance. Resulting in a double CD containing 22 tracks in total. We sub divided the two Cd's, one into an "In Concert " which is effectively a live performance, and the other is "studio" sessions.

D.McG: There are a few tracks that have never appeared before, Feel So Bad?

D.G. That's a variation of the Elvis Presley number "feel so bad like a ball game on a rainy day", it was a song that Elvis popularised in a way.

D.McG: Got My Mojo Workin' appears on the live CD?

D.G. Yeah, well obviously Muddy Waters stamps all over this, and it joins Country Mile. It was one of the rare finds that we had. We found this tape from radio Trent, from the DeMontford Hall, Leicester and there was just a few tracks on that and it was incredible. We put on Country Mile and he was rockin', flat out, foot to the board. Suddenly he went slightly from the centre and goes off and does Got My Mojo Workin'.

D.McG: There's another track "Roberta" ,is that an acoustic number?

D.G: No,it's an electric blues standard, an old traditional, it's similar to Mule To Ride.

D.McG: Have you exhausted your search for material, or is there anything more which may be released in a few years time?

D.G. There is enough there to make a few volumes but we're trying to be selective, where you've been given a good blend, obviously putting rare tracks and then obviously based on performances. Particularly with the In Concert one, there is lots of Irish Tour material which is very, very good. You could derive a B.B.C Irish Tour album if you wanted, it's a fine balance. I feel the performances on Rory's live albums are definative, so I didn't want to start putting out other versions of those, but yes you could. I think we had about hours of performances and there's still material that we're trying to track down. When we went to the B.B.C. and made a request for the tapes all they could offer us were DATS because they had dispensed with their original library tapes, so we began the quest to try and get the original tapes if we could. We had one or two old contacts. The key one that we located was a guy called Phil Laughton who is still the archiveist at Radio 1 but luckily he had taken tapes into safe keeping because he is such a Rory fan. Phil knew the value of them, so when the B.B.C. were throwing out all their tape material into skips, he took the tapes off and put them into safe keeping. I phoned Phil on the one off chance and he still had the tapes, so that was an excellent find, three boxes of the original tapes. We actually had a lot of tapes ourselves and there were some performances which we had on multi-track recordings which were mostly from the Hammersmith Odeon.

D.McG:What kind of a response are you getting from BMG and the whole remastering catalogue?

D.G: Oh, it's a phenomenal buzz is all I can say. I took my time selecting the right home for Rory's legacy to go, and you're always nervous that you'll make the wrong move, because you're into agreements that last for several years, it's like a marriage but so far, so good. We're blessed with the fact that the head of the department that I deal with, Ray Jenks, was actually the sales manager at Polydor when Rory was on the label and in addition he was at Castle Communications the time of Fresh Evidence and he met with Rory at the time and discussed the release of Fresh Evidence with him They'd got along quite well. Ray was a former musician himself and has a lot respect for Rory, so it is a very healthy situation to go into and obviously all the company's we were talking to were good companies but the one thing BMG have over everybody is their worldwide distribution system which is second to none.

D.McG: Getting back to the remasters ,it must have been quite difficult at times for yourself during the sessions to try and think what way would Rory have remastered a particular track, how did you cope with that?

D.G: It was difficult. I spent my Easter holiday listening through everything and trying to in effect put it in an order he would have done. We had several variations on a theme throughout and it was refined downwards. Time dictates on tracks as well to a degree. Put it this way, I don't know what Rory would think it's his performances, all his performances are excellent. In the compiling of this I had a different compilation delivered for the ‘In Concert’ one and when the BMG people heard the version of Calling Card that was on there they were astounded, it's just an astounding version of Calling Card. It's nearly nine minutes long and in effect, even though it's a long track they wanted that to lead the album. In a way they just feel it's such a phenomenal performance.

D.McG: A question which you must have been asked a thousand times butIi feel I have to ask again ,is there definitely going to be an acoustic album somewhere down the line?

D.G: There definitely is, because there is a commitment to BMG to deliver an acoustic album to them. At one point it may well have been that the acoustic album could have come out before the B.B.C. album, but the more time that I have the more material we will uncover, for example, a couple of weeks ago I had the pleasure to meet Bert Jansch and in the course of the conversation with Bert he mentioned to me that Rory had sent him over a tape of some acoustic tracks that he recorded and that he would like Bert to listen to them with the view to playing on them. So that literally was two weeks ago. So if I had gone for the acoustic album we would have missed that. We also turned up the odd recording in Rory's suitcases or whatever of recordings with just instructions on them, so the more time we have the better it will turn out. We're aware of certain tracks but there's so much time to go back on. Recordings that were done twenty years ago and the tapes were never sent down or you were out on tour and it was too bulky to carry multi-tracks or you're hoping they'll be sent to you.

D.McG: As time goes on do you think that other musicians could be added to play on the acoustic album?

D.G: There are recordings around of Rory where he plays with other musicians, subject to the clearances of those artists. I know there are songs that he did with Bela Fleck for instance and others. So we just have to locate the best versions of those tracks as best we can. I know that everybody is anxious to get the acoustic album, but the job in hand was to re-establish the catalogue and by doing that, because of the absence for a while from the market place of Rory, and prior to that because we were licensed in different territories, the record store dealers got a confusing pattern of who Rory was with, do you get it from Polydor, do you get it from Chrysalis, do you get it from Demon, Castle, there was a lot of confusion to the dealers. So by working the catalogue hard, first it meant that Rory is back in every record store you go into. It's better to get that marketing done first so that when you came with a newer album the stores are aware of who he is and where he is positioned in your store.

D.McG: So is Tony Arnold working on the last batch of remasters at the moment?

D.G: Currently we're working on those, Tattoo, Jinx, Blueprint and Stagestruck. Jinx I really want to work on personally because it's one of my favourite of the albums. I have a feeling we won't see those until Jan / February next year ( 2000 ).

D.McG: A question which every fan wants to know the answer to is the fact that Irish Tour'74 has never been released on video. Is it ever going to see the light of day?

D.G: It definately will, there is no two ways about that. Music video companies are very sceptical about putting stuff out anymore because that market has dwindled, so we led with the improved technical quality to Rory "Live In Cork" on BMG. We're still working on the soundtrack of Irish Tour'74, it's a piece by piece restoration if you like, and I want to look at one or two possibilities, the edit of the original to make it more concise and in addition to that I'm looking at additional material to round it off more as it were. Like the acoustic album I want to get it right because you only get one shot at getting these things right. The reason it was slightly delayed was that the B.B.C. are keen to make the definitive Rory documentary and there was a request made to use some of that footage so they didn't want Irish Tour coming up before they had their documentary made. We felt that they might clash because of changes in controllers at the B.B.C. everything moved so slowly at the B.B.C.I spoke to Mark Hagen who did the Bruce Springsteen documentary ( A Secret History ) so we're waiting on clearance from the new controller that has come into the B.B.C. The head of music is a Taste fan, he's given us the green light. The point is people have to appreciate that the B.B.C. will make a documentary on Rory but what you have to do from a commercial point of view is that you say to them "what is our slot"? When do you transmit this programme? Because there's no point in making this documentary that they sit and then sell it off to one of the cable channels.( The U.K Arena recently screened the Hammersmith Odeon gig ).

D.McG: From the American point of view what way are things going on over there as regards the remasters?

D.G: The situation in America is there had been an existing agreement to IRS who had basically ceased to trade as a company. EMI Capitol took over their catalogue and we had a dispute with them as their rights to do that, so that took over a year to resolve and we literally only got the return of the rights to America as of the turn of this year. So we couldn't go forward in America until we had all the legalities in place. Now they went with the "Rory Gallagher and the "Deuce" album in June, then they were going with two titles, "Top Priorty" and "Fresh Evidence", so they will accelerate in order to catch up, so before long they'll be in sync with the rest. Other territories like France and Japan will have to get back in sync as well. Effectively everything is back with BMG but certain territories have to pick up pace.

D.McG: Four years after Rory's death he's been remembered through various Tribute shows in Ireland ,the U.K, and parts of Europe. What are you're feelings towards the whole phenomenon?

D.G:To be honest i'm overwhelmed by them. They're quite a strange feeling for me. For instance the one in Dukinfield, I found that quite eerie because, when I walked up to the venue I could hear one of the bands playing and suddenly you get that whole feeling, like you know, going backstage to a gig that Rory's onstage at. The bands are of excellent calibre is all I can say, some of them do such a good emotional rendition, it's not a Karaoke type of thing, they play with sincerity and the emotion they put into it, it really gives me goosepimples, so in a sense it tends to become that bitter sweet thing. You enjoy it on one level and the other level it kind of stings. I'm knocked out by them and the devotion of the people doing it.

D.McG: You've loaned some items to the Hall Of Fame in Dublin?

D.G: Yeah, the 25th Anniversary Stratocaster that Fender presented to Rory (1977) which was the first of a batch of Stratocasters which they made for the anniversary. I think the serial number on it is "4". There is a gold disc for Live In Europe plus early press stuff like ads and shots of Rory from the very early days. There is also footage of Rory from Rockpalast and original hand written lyrics for the King Of Zydeco, so you can see how Rory was working on the song as it goes through. There are concert tickets from a selection of different places from all over the world, tour passes and stuff like that. Contracts of Taste from the Marquee Club in London, press cuttings from St. Anthony's Hall when we were advertised as the Gallagher Brothers. Rory would do his set and he would bring me on to harmonise on some Everly Brothers numbers. These would be the very first gigs he ever did.

D.McG: Are there any ambitions or goals that you have set to do over the coming years?

D.G: The principal one is to do the best I can with the catalogue. I feel so far we have done a fairly decent job on that. Video's and footage are important with the advent of DVD. In time there are so many things like the Rockpalast, so getting those on to a good format for the future. A very good documentary on Rory and also a film of Rory, about Rory, because he was such a movie buff himself. There's a fair bit of interest amongst movie people in that area. I've spoken to different film companies about different ideas. I don't want it like The Buddy Holly Story or something like that. We're working on different ideas from that point of view. To promote the songs that he wrote so that other artists would look at him in a different light and cover his songs. One of the projects is an album of songs of Rory's done by other artists; Dylan, Brian May, Johnny Marr, ZZ Top.

D.McG: In what way would you like Rory to be remembered?

D.G:It's a hard question because there are so many different ways to look at Rory. I think as an honest musician. I'm pleased that he is remembered by the devoted following that he has, but I'd like him to be remembered on a wider scale for the influence that he was. It's very easy now for people to cite Neil Young or Springsteen as the kind of guys who didn't put up with the bullshit of the business and all that. Rory's attitude changed an awful lot of things in the business that he never got recognition for because he wasn't the type. I'd like him to be credited for the influence he was on people because he put an awful lot of humanity into his music. He was a musician first and foremost, that was his vocation and he stuck with it.

Dino McGartland

THE GERRY McAVOY INTERVIEW: 17/12/01

"Will you please give a big hand for the man on the bass, Mr. Gerry McAvoy!” Those words from Rory Gallagher ring through as I'm writing this. Words that were repeated night after night, city to city, country to country, around the world. Gerry McAvoy as a young 19- year- old left Belfast to play bass guitar with a blues legend. Sharing countless nights on the road, in hotel rooms, playing clubs, theatres, student colleges and stadiums worldwide. They became inseparable to the point that each knew what the other was thinking before it happened. A bond onstage that probably very few bands have or will ever have again. Gerry McAvoy will always be remembered as Rory's loyal sideman who stood, legs astride, rooted to the spot, head nodding, almost to the point that one day we all thought that it was going to land at our feet. Here in this rare interview Gerry talks about his twenty years spent with the legend they call Rory Gallagher.

Dino McGartland: It's been well documented that you were brought up in Belfast and played with a band called Deep Joy. In those days you would have come across Rory with Taste. What are you're recollections of that period?

Gerry McAvoy: The first time I saw Taste was in the old Club Rado, The Maritime Club in Belfast. Taste were actually doing the "break" for “The Few”, in those days. The main band would come on and do a set, then the support band, what they called the "break" band would come on in the middle and do a twenty five minute slot. That's what Taste did, and used the equipment belonging to The Few. That was the original Taste with Eric Kitteringham and Norman Damery. This was around 1967.

D.McG: So when did you first see the "other" Taste?

G.McA: Well I remember there was a paper called City Beat or something, a sort of Pop paper, and that was the big thing about John Wilson and Charlie (McCracken) who were from a band called Cheese. They were going to join up with Rory. I first met Rory around 1967 in a music shop in Belfast. I just went up to him, he gave me the time of day, sat down and we chatted for about ten minutes.

D.McG: So what was it about Belfast that appealed to Rory? He seemed to have spent a lot of time there?

G.McA: The music scene in Belfast was thriving at the time. It had a big rhythm & blues background as compared to the rest of Ireland, which was swamped with showbands.

D.McG: So obviously then Taste split up after the Isle of Wight festival. So when did you come into the picture?

G.McA: The band I was in, Deep Joy went over to London, and we were in the same stable as Taste - The Robert Stigwood Organisation. Both bands were in the same agency and we did a lot of gigs with Taste in England, and abroad as well. The first trip we took abroad with Deep Joy must have been around May 1970; we went to Germany supporting John Mayall. The first gig we did as Deep Joy was in Hamburg, of course everybody was nervous, and Rory turned up. Rory and Donal came along to the gig, gave us a bit of moral support, it was really nice to see a friendly face. During that year 1970 we did quite a few gigs with Taste, supporting them. Towards the end of the year we started to disintegrate, I didn't know at that time Taste were splitting up. But we used to play a lot of clubs around London and Rory and Donal would turn up at the clubs. Obviously checking us out??? The first time I was aware of it was, yet again the City Beat paper in Belfast had a front page article saying top contenders for the job with Rory Gallagher was myself and Wilgar Campbell, and I didn't even know about it!

D.McG: Wilgar was from Belfast also?

G.McA: Yeah, he was from Belfast too. We moved over to London and he actually stayed there. I came back because I'd had enough; Wilgar stayed out there as he was married and had kids etc, and set up home there. Rory got in touch with Wilgar first around late January 1971 and he rang me up and said did I fancy coming over for a blow. So I got on a plane and went over and we had a rehearsal in a little studio down in Fulham, and I flew back that night.

D.McG: What kind of material did you go through at the rehearsal?

G.McA: Oh, it was Blues covers. Just me, Wilgar and Rory in a little room. It was great, it was amazing! I was like 19 years old at the time, and there I was playing with Rory Gallagher!!

D.McG: Well can you remember your first gig as the Rory Gallagher Band?

G.McA: Well what happened was, I went back and that was it. I never heard anything for a couple of weeks. Rory rang me up again when I was in Belfast and said do you fancy coming over to make an album? I said YEAH!! So I flew over to London again and we made the first Rory Gallagher album!!

D.McG: You didn't have any gigs under your belt at this time?

G.McA: No not at this stage, We just went in and made the album. Rory handed me an envelope with some money in it and I went back to Belfast again. Didn't hear nothing more for another couple of weeks. Then another phone call, it was Rory on the phone; he said do you fancy coming over to do a couple of gigs? (laughs).That's the way it was! I mean he'd gone through the whole Taste thing which ended up in a court case and all that, and I think he wanted to shy away from all that you know, Wanted to get as far away as possible. He never actually asked me to join the band! The first T.V. show, The Olympia Theatre in Paris. My first ever gig. In at the deep end!

D.McG: You had built up quite a following in England, and Europe was a big stomping ground. How did things go there?

G.McA: The thing about it was, in those days it happened so quickly. There wasn't a great amount of competition in that field, and Rory was at the top in his field. You just made in roads very very quickly. You went from a club to a concert hall very quickly, and the audiences grew, and festivals and so on and so on. The albums became more and more popular. The Live In Europe album was probably the biggest selling album of Rory's career. It was No1 in the charts in England and that took it to a different level.

D.McG: It must have been a great buzz for you to tour with Rory and see a lot of the world. Do you remember your first trip home to Belfast as a member of the Rory Gallagher Band?

G.McA: Yeah, I do. It was Christmas 1971.It was unbelievable. Because of the Troubles nobody was playing Belfast and I remember the night we played, a couple of bombs went off around the City. Just after Christmas, the day after Boxing Day, 27th December 1971. I remember it got front page in the Melody Maker. Rory Hollingworth did the article about the gig; he was a very good writer. We did it every year for quite a few years, right through the Troubles. It was great coming back. The first time it was for one night at The Ulster Hall, next time two nights, then Dublin and Cork. We always ended up in Cork for the New Year.

D.McG: I'm going to ask you an impossible question, but do you have a favourite gig or gigs?

G.McA: Ah it's impossible. I must admit I'm biased towards the Belfast gigs because it's my hometown and I used to love it. The first one was an amazing reaction. I remember, in fact it was the last time I played the Ulster Hall with Rory in the Eighties. I remember going onstage and the standing ovation he got lasted for about five minutes, it was UNBELIEVABLE! Even though he had been going there for all those years that one sticks out in my mind. It was an amazing reaction.

DMcG: Then America. How many times did you tour there?

G.McA: The last count with Rory I think we did 28 tours of America.

D.McG: What was the main difference touring there?

G.McA: Everything was bigger! We did a gig once in South Carolina where ZZ Top supported Rory. Because they were massive in Texas and in the rest of the States they weren't that big. This was in the Seventies; Rory was bigger in certain places than they were. I mean every time we did Cleveland, Ohio, Kiss were the support band. The audience used to laugh them off the stage! We did a lot of University shows as well, the college circuit. The clubs there hold six or seven hundred people. But then that grew as well. At the end of Rod and Lou's career with the band we did Felt Forum, which is the downstairs part of Madison Square Gardens. Rory headlined that. The Beacon Theatre, which holds about 6000 people, The Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles, yet again Fleetwood Mac and Kiss were the support bands. Ten thousand people and Rory was headlining. Selling it out.

D.McG: What would Rory have done on a day off while touring in America?

G.McA: Every time we would hit Chicago, especially with Rod and Lou, the four of us would hit the clubs, the blues clubs. Other days off, Rory and I would have gone to the cinema.

D.McG: Did he ever get up and jam with other artists while in the clubs?

G.McA: Oh yeah. That happened all the time. If you were doing a gig, you'd find out where the nearest club was, finish the gig, head down to the club and get up and jam, yeah that happened a lot.

D.McG: How did the connection with Roger Glover come about on the Calling Card album?

G.McA: We toured with Deep Purple in America for about three months, a massive American tour, along with Fleetwood Mac. It was like a proposal that came up and Rory decided to give it a go. It didn't work. Roger was coming from one direction and Rory another, you know. Roger actually smoothed it out quite a lot.

D.McG: When the band got together in the studio for an album, recording tracks, ideas for songs, did Rory have control over everything or could you contribute ideas for a song?

G.McA: There'd be certain bass lines that I would come up with myself. The way it was structured was that when rehearsing for an album, Rory brought new songs to the table and just started playing them. We'd join in bit by bit and add our own bits and pieces to it. He was very much a perfectionist; he knew exactly what he wanted. Most of the times he'd have about 80% of the ideas, but obviously sometimes it can be inspirational as well. Sometimes songs just came up. He'd have an idea on the day.

D.McG: What albums or tracks do you still class as your favourites?

G.McA: Well from the early stuff I like Laundromat, Sinnerboy. The later stuff like Follow Me. A Million Miles Away is a classic track. I think the sentiment in the song as well, what the song is about. It's a well-crafted, structured song. The Irish Tour version is the definitive version.

D.McG: Is there anyone that you think Rory would have liked to have worked with or recorded with?

G.McA: Al Kooper, Bob Dylan, De Dannan. He had a wide musical range. Al Kooper goes back to the Bob Dylan connection and his connection with music. Al was a very clever man, very knowledgeable man about music and he and Rory got on well with each other. He used to come to quite a few of our gigs in the States. We'd go on stage and there'd be Al standing there at the gig. He had a lot of time for Rory.

D.McG: Rory seemed to be fanatical about Dylan?

G.McA: I don't know about fanatical, but he liked Dylan yeah, but he liked Muddy Waters as much as he liked Dylan. He loved The Beatles, The Stones, Elvis Costello. He was very aware of different styles of music. He always kept abreast of it. He's always checked out everything. Even Nine Below Zero. I remember we did a tour in the early Eighties and he went out and bought a cassette of NBZ just to check it out.

D.McG: You mentioned the Stones. What's your recollection of that whole incident with Rory?

G.McA: I knew nothing about the incident until I read it in Melody Maker! Rory was so focused on his own career I don't think he would have joined them. Rory was a front man as well and I couldn't imagine Rory and Mick Jagger on the same stage together. Maybe on a one off situation, But on a touring situation I don't think so. He did record with them. The story goes that the track Hot Stuff, that was Rory's riff but Keith Richards ripped it off. Keith was good at that because he ripped off Ry Cooder's Honky Tonk Woman, it was Ry Cooders riff and Keith ripped off that riff. So Rory came up with the riff, they used it on Hot Stuff, but he never got the credit for it. Rory never mentioned the Stones session until sometime later. He never talked about it and I never asked him about it. It was his business, so I didn't like to ask him about it.

D.McG: Your last album with Rory was Fresh Evidence, so how did the decision come that you wanted to move on after fourteen albums, twenty years on?

G.McA: I started to get itchy feet and wanted to be part of a band, because I write and I wanted to express myself, write music, and record it. I thought maybe Rory wanted a change as well. Even though he changed drummers, I was there for twenty years. There's a reason for that in that Rory and I played very well together, and that's not being egotistical. We could read each other. I knew what he was going to play sometimes and vice versa. Even though through all those years with Rory I was still a sideman to him, I had no problems with that. Rory was the boss, the main man and he deserved everything he got, the adulation etc. But I just wanted to be in a band with four equal members, or whatever. But mostly it was the writing aspect of it. I wanted to express myself more on record.

D.McG: So how did you pluck up the courage to say to Rory "I want to leave"??

G.McA: It was one of the worst days of my life! I rang up Donal the night before and said that I was changing and wanted to do something different. Donal went WHAT!. It was very difficult. Donal was great about it. He set up a meeting with Rory the next day and Brendan and I went along and met Rory in a pub. We talked for about three hours. It was around November 1990.There was a world tour already planned for February / March. Japan, Australia. We said we would honour those dates and go our own way after that. He took it very well, very very well. We also told him about Nine Below Zero and the direction we wanted to go. He asked us about Dennis Greaves and what he was like etc and we tried to explain that it wasn't a guitar / lead type of band. Mark Feltham was also involved with Nine Below Zero at the time. So we were all leaving him at the same time. It was something I had been thinking about for a few years before. I was thinking about it for a long time. I didn't know what to do, what direction to go in. I had different calls. Gary Moore rang up and asked me as well, which Rory knew about because they actually contacted the office. Quo wanted me in the early Eighties, but I turned that down because I couldn't see myself in Status Quo.

D.McG: So you went ahead and did your final world tour with Rory. Can you remember the final gig?

G.McA: The Marquee in New York. It was absolutely stuffed! The police actually closed off both ends of the street because there were so many people outside trying to get in. I remember coming off for the last song, just before the encore, and the Fire Chief came in and said there was a fire risk here because there were so many people in the club, he was going to have to close it down.

D.McG: But how did you feel emotionally since this was your last gig with Rory?

G.McA: It was very emotional. We set up a small party afterwards and everybody was about it. Donal came down, but Rory never came.

D.McG: It's pretty strange, because thinking about what you said earlier, that Rory never asked you to join the band, and now twenty years later he never actually said good-bye to you either?

G.McA: It must have been about a year afterwards, Rory still hadn't got a band together, he rang myself and Brendan and asked us to do a couple of shows, which we did, one in France and The Fleadh in Glasgow. The gig we did in France, Nine Below Zero were actually on the same bill. So we went on as Nine Below Zero, someone else came on, and then we came on again with Rory.

D.McG: Did you have any form of guilt thrown at you by the fans about leaving Rory?

G.McA: Of course I did, yeah. I had to take it, because it was my decision, a difficult decision to make at the time. A couple of people got abusive, especially after Rory died. In Germany a couple of guys came up to me and said if I'd have stayed with Rory he'd still be alive today. It hurt.

D.McG: Lets talk some about Nine Below Zero The band consists of yourself, Brendan O'Neill, Mark Feltham and Dennis Greaves. What are the big differences with this band and playing with Rory?

G.McA: All the years I played with Rory I accepted the roll I was in, because when I joined Rory at 19 years of age, Rory was already a popular figure. People knew Rory Gallagher and Taste. I was lucky enough as a young lad of nineteen to be involved in that situation. If I had been in a different situation I wouldn't have learned as quickly as I did. How to play, how to control an audience, stage culture. I learned all that from Rory and I learned it very quickly. I just wanted to be in a band, get up and sing, write songs and that's what's happening with Nine Below Zero. I mean we've still got front man, Dennis Greaves. Mark Feltham is another front man. The demands are different, that's what it's all about, different demands. It's like a different way of playing music sometimes. But what stands by me is the twenty years that I was with Rory. Especially the first ten years with Rory when I learned most of my craft.

D.McG: I know that a lot fans go to NBZ gigs expecting to here you play some of Rory's s material, did you decide to make a complete cut from that?

G.McA: Well just after Rory died Donal asked me to put a thing together to do a German T.V show, Rockpalast. Bob Dylan and Jack Bruce were going to be involved but as it got closer to rehearsal times Donal rang up and said that Dylan and Bruce weren't doing it. So I said let's just get a bunch of guys who Rory would like to have played his music, or liked his music. So I got Robbie McIntosh, Brian Robertson, Lou Martin, Mark Feltham and all the guys from Nine Below Zero, and we did this thing for German T.V. To give Dennis Greaves his dues when he was a kid he always went to see Rory Gallagher. All his mates were going to see T-Rex and Gary Glitter, and Dennis would go and see Ten Years After, Rory Gallagher, Chicken Shack and people like that, so he was very aware of Rory's music. We did Tattoo'd Lady, Bullfrog Blues, Off The Handle, Laundromat and that stuff. On top of that I've done Rory tributes in Holland and obviously one in Ireland as well. Dennis has got a lot of admiration for Rory, he still listens to his music, and he’s a fan as well as everybody else.

D.McG: What about the songwriting in the band?

G.McA: We're actually going into the studio in February to record a new album. We all do, sit and write and then we all get together a couple of weeks before rehearsals and thrash the songs out, throw ideas at each other.

D.McG: Wild Kicking Horse from the Refrigerator album is a great song. It's almost got a Stones feel to it. Do you decide when you are recording what kind of a feel you want for the album?

G.McA: No no, obviously we 'll sit down with acoustic guitars and thrash songs out and rehearse them. You do pre-production and try songs in different shapes and different ways. The violin on Wild Kicking Horse was like a Stones thing, what would the Stones do with a song like that. I played mandolin on it as well. It has a country / blues rock type of thing to it.

D.McG: So are you enjoying yourself now?

G.McA: Oh yeah. Even more so now that Mark's back in the fold. Playing with Dennis and Brendan is inspirational enough, but when you have someone like Mark there as well, it's amazing.

D.McG: Do you still keep in touch with some of the other ex members of the RG band?

G.McA: Yeah, yeah. In fact we're going to be doing the Jazz Cafe in London, a sort of "unplugged" gig. We're going to bring Lou along to do some songs.

D.McG: How did the unplugged gig come about?

G.McA: It started about two years ago at the Cambridge Folk Festival. We got the gig but Dennis said no we're not an unplugged band, but we said to hell with it we'll give it a go and it went down great, and we've been doing it ever since. The next album is going to be half acoustic / electric type of album.

D.McG: You've popped up and given your support to some of the tribute shows that have taken place in various places. How do you think Rory would have reacted to that sort of thing?

G.McA: Probably in much the same way as I reacted to it. It's great to see these people keeping it alive. In fact we did three shows last year in France. We called it the Band Of Friends, and it's like a celebration of Rory's music. We have Nine Below Zero with Lou Martin on keyboards and a guy called Gwyn Ashton on guitar. We did three shows in France and it was amazing! The reaction was incredible! What people are seeing, is the band that played with Rory Gallagher, not actually a tribute band. The band without Rory. We're gonna do nine shows in March around Europe. Holland, Switzerland, Germany, Belgium, France, The Band of Friends. We're not a tribute band because there are plenty of tribute bands out there, I've seen quite a few of them. It'll be like a celebration of Rory's music, not just Rory's music, but we'll play Rory's favourite songs from Muddy Waters to John Lee Hooker' ‘cause I know the songs he always wanted to play.

D.McG: How would you sum up your time with Rory?

G.McA: As I said earlier, the situation where you can join somebody that young, nineteen years of age, and learn your craft from somebody as skilled as Rory. It has stood by me all these years. The sad thing is that he's gone and left us. I'd still love to ring him up now and go down and see him for a pint of Guinness.

So there it is folks .I'd sincerely like to thank Gerry for giving his time for doing the interview and also for being so open with me. He answered all the questions I put to him. Anyone wanting to buy CD's or any information on Nine Below Zero can do so through their web site at: www.ninebelowzero.com

Dino McGartland

"The Piano Man Is Really Layin' It Down"

Hair flailing from side to side, head buried deep into the face of the black and white keys, which he attacked so passionately. He could play blues, twelve bar, honky tonk or just about anything that came his way. Lou Martin, a man whom we all love for his passion and commitment during his time with Rory, speaks to Rorygallagher.com. and tells how it all began for him.

I was brought up in the Antrim Road, Belfast and I started playing piano when I was six years old. I had lessons from one of the local teachers. Every other family in the neighbourhood was sending kids along to piano lessons, so I was sent along as well. I was brought up on classical music; Bach, Mozart and early Beethoven. We left Belfast and moved to London in 1960 and I carried on taking lessons from the music teacher at school. I did the grade exams until 1963-64 and then they decided to send me to a part-time music college. During that time I was into John Mayall and Steve Winwood, then I left school in 1967 and was supposed to go to music college full time, but I decided against that. I wanted to jump into the blues scene, which was taking off then. I saw an advert in the Melody Maker "Chicago Blues band looking for pianist". I'd been listening to a lot of American music, Memphis Slim, Otis Spann, not forgetting Jerry Lee Lewis, so I joined Killing Floor late 1967. Mick Clarke who I'm playing with at the moment was in the band then. It was very much a Paul Butterfield type of thing.

Dino McGartland: When you were in Killing Floor were you aware of Rory and what he was doing at the time?

Lou Martin: Oh yes. We were doing gigs at the Marquee Club in London and Taste were coming up at the same time, they were making it quite big. I saw Taste about three times with Eric Kitteringham and Norman Damery, and about a year later I saw the second line up with John Wilson and Charlie McCracken. It was obvious then that Rory was going to be mega, he was that good a frontman. I never bought any of their records but I did enjoy their live shows.

D.McG: So how did you get the gig with Rory then?

L.M: Rod de'Ath and I were living in this house, which was a kind of commune and very much a "hippie" sort of thing. Rod used to sub let the room without telling the landlord about it. So he placed an advert in the local paper to let out the top room and this guy turned up on a Saturday night with a suit, sort of a smoothie, and looked about the room. He came into the hallway and we, being a band, had all the band gear stacked up in the hallway, cabinets and stuff like that. He had this Belfast accent and he said,” Band is it"? He came in and had a cup of coffee and asked which band we were in. We said "Killing Floor", and then he said, "I play in a band". We both looked at each him and thought, no way looking like that, with a big tie on him. We said "which band are you with" and he said "Rory Gallagher". We went "WHAT!!" It was like that. It was Gerry McAvoy! He said, "I see you don't believe me but it's true".

Gerry moved into the house and they (Rory Gallagher Band) were just on the first album and were doing gigs. So Gerry and Wilgar Campbell came along to see us one night and then invited us to go and see them. So he got us seats at the Queen Elizabeth Hall and we went back to see him and I actually got to shake hands with Rory! I saw them once again and then we got another gig in the Marquee. The entire band were there this time, Rory, Gerry, Wilgar and Tom O'Driscoll, this was around the middle of summer 1971. Suddenly after that, Wilgar Campbell decided to leave. They were due to tour Ireland and the only other drummer that Rory had seen that was remotely suitable was Rod! So Rory got in touch with Rod and asked him could he help out for an Irish tour? Wilgar was supposedly having a nervous breakdown, so they did four Irish gigs finishing off at the Stadium in Dublin. At this stage Wilgar came over and presented himself halfway through the tour. Rod had already done three gigs and Wilgar turned up and Rod more or less handed the sticks to him, and Wilgar came in and played. So Rod came back, it was such a shame the way it turned out. But as it happened Rory preferred Rod's drumming and he invited Rod to join the band permanently.

Rod joined Rory as a full-time member of the band and I remember we went out for a drink to celebrate before they went off to Germany on tour. When they returned home I went to see their next couple of gigs and Rory asked me to come down for a "jam" sometime. He contacted me a few days later to arrange it and I said O.K. We played all his numbers, which I knew anyway after seeing him quite a few times. But I thought, “Why are we doing all his numbers? And then he asked me point blank "We're doing a tour of Italy, why don't you come along 'cause I'd like to try it out on stage". So I said of course I would.

I remember at the time I didn't even have a passport! I spent a full day queuing up in the passport office in London and I made such a nuisance of myself by badgering him that the guy who was dealing with me virtually threw the passport at me to get me out of there - but I got to Italy!

I remember we did stuff like ‘Messin' With The Kid’, ‘Used To Be’, ’I Could've Had Religion’, ‘In Your Town’, ‘Bullfrog Blues’ and ’Laundromat’. I just felt my way into the numbers but Rory felt pretty happy with it. Soon after he said the band was going to the States in ten days time and he’d like me to come along, so I said O.K. It was while we were there that he asked me to be permanent, so we shook hands and that was that!

My first tour coincided with the American release of ‘Live In Europe’, and Rory had been there before with Gerry and Wilgar. We were offered support to Savoy Brown and Rory jumped at the idea. After Polydor got us on the tour I think the album (Live In Europe) made it into the top 100 American albums. After three weeks Savoy Brown had internal arguments and wanted to back home, so Donal made contact with a booking agent and what started out as a five week tour, ended up as nearly three months! It lasted from July to November, and we played everywhere. We took every gig that was going practically. We played down South, then up the West Coast into Canada, back into the States and finally ended up in Chicago & New York. In some places there were less than forty people and still we did the same show. It was amazing! Rory' s idea was, do one good show, and next time we play the venue there would be two or three times the people. He was proved correct, we did go back and there were a hell of a lot more people. It was a hard slog but it had to be done, there's nothing like a tour like that to "click" a band together.

When we came back from America we had only two days off before going into the studio to record ‘Blueprint’ it was like one rehearsal and straight in there, the whole album was done in about two weeks! We didn't even know what numbers we were going to do. Rory made up songs like ‘Hands Off’, which we had never done before. We used to jam ‘Shake for Me’ by Howlin’ Wolf in the states and Rory just re-worked the riff and that became ‘Walk on Hot Coals! It was a case of one take, two takes," does that sound OK?" sounds fine to me, right onto the next track". We had to get the album finished because we had an English tour coming up, then an Irish tour over the Christmas period, and then it was on to Germany to promote the release of the new album.

D.McG: What was it like for you returning to play in Belfast for the first time?

L.M: Belfast was a total riot!! (No pun intended). That was the first time I'd been back there since I left in the '60's. At that time during the height of the Troubles, no one would play there, not even Thin Lizzy, but Rory made a point of doing it. It never bothered us. The Ulster Hall was heaving, people were piling on top of each other just to get in! I think they were so grateful to him for playing there. We were knocked out because you could not get a better audience than this, if you had sneezed on stage they would have applauded!

D.McG: You mentioned earlier that Blueprint was your first recording with Rory. Didn't you play guitar on a track on that album?

L.M: I'm no lead guitar player! I like to mess around on the acoustic, and I can play rhythm guitar as long as we stick to about eleven chords, twelve bar is no problem! I think during my first couple of days with Rory I picked up one of his guitars and he said, "Do you play"? He kind of liked the idea. We'd go on stage and he'd say, "Would you play guitar on Could've Had Religion" or just a chunky Jimmie Reed number or something like that and I'd say yeah. So he said to take the telecaster and do it on that. On Blueprint I play on Race The Breeze.

D.McG: So you're telling me you actually played guitar on some of the "live" gigs as well?!!

L.M: Yes I did. I did it for a year. It probably was a change for Rory not to have the piano there all the time, but having second guitar playing instead. I used to feel ok doing it. Gerry McAvoy is a far better player than I am, Gerry used to say, "I can play better than that". I'd say "Gerry, I'm the first to admit it.........but he wants me to play"!!!!!

D.McG: What albums, tracks, are your favourites?

L.M: Oh, they're spread over. With Blueprint I like ‘Race The Breeze’ and ‘Daughter of the Everglades’, the melodic side of things. Tattoo was a very strong album. We recorded that at Polydor studios, the engineer was really good and we got a great feel on it. Against The Grain was a bit rockier but I did like ‘At The Bottom’. In Between that we did Irish Tour'74 and basically ALL of that is great!

D.McG: Many fans would say that Lou Martin played a big part of the Rory Gallagher Band sound, why then did you part company?

L.M: It was different factors. We had been playing for seven years non - stop around the world. As a matter of fact we went around the world twice! We played everywhere. When Rod and I would get home we’d usually go along to local pubs to jam with other musicians in London, and we thought it would be healthy from a musical point of view to have a change. It wasn’t like we didn’t like playing with Rory any more or vice versa but he was ready for a change too, he was ready to go back to a three piece so Rod and I formed Ramrod with Mick Clark. Quite honestly that band was Killing floor rejuvenated, but it never got anywhere because it was the wrong climate at the time. We couldn’t get a record deal because everybody was signing up punk rock bands like The Clash and The Damned and stuff like that.

D.McG: In the late 80's early 90's was there a chance that you were going to get back and play with Rory again?

L.M. Well Ramrod didn't last long so I decided to pack it in. I got myself a job playing piano upstairs in a high-class restaurant, grand piano job. I was playing classical, and as much boogie woogie as I could because it went down so well. Rory called me up about 1984 and asked me to play on ‘Seven Days’ for the Defender album. He just called up out of the blue. We went down to the studio and he played me the track, asked if I had any ideas, and we did it. I also did "Kid Gloves" on Fresh Evidence with Geraint Watkins, one of the "King" piano players. I've known him from way back, a superb blues player. He’s a Cajun guy who’s got a hell of a good voice as well, he played accordion on "The King of Zydeco". I played piano on "Kid Gloves" and Mark Feltham was also there. Again it was a case of here's the song, what do you think? So we ran through it and it was done in the second take, no messing about.

D.McG: Were you aware that Rory was going through health problems?

L.M:I met him one day in Shaftesbury Avenue in London and he had put on a lot of weight. The next time we met was in Cork; Donal had contacted me to say Rory was doing a sort of ‘unplugged’ gig at the R.T.C. It was part of the Jazz & Blues Festival. Rory was on acoustic guitar, Mark Feltham on harmonica, and myself on piano. We played for two hours and that was the last time I ever played with him. He was playing everything, blues numbers that I'd never seen him play before. He did Muddy Waters, Son House, Blind Lemon Jefferson and Robert Johnson. He looked well and he was enjoying himself. Here we were in the late Eighties, the blues thing was happening, and I'm sure he must have said to himself "Why can't I be a major part of this?” If it were nowadays he would be. I just think that he got a bit disillusioned with all the razzamatazz. Everybody was raving about American bands and I think he felt that he put SO much work into the albums and people were ignoring it. And he was also coping with a glandular problem.

After the gig in the College we went back at the hotel and I sat up in the lounge with him until 5 O'clock in the morning and we talked about everything. The entire state of the blues, books, and before I knew it, it was that time. He had become so insular. He turned in on himself in a way. He wasn't the easiest sort of guy to make friends with and he always felt people were trying to come on to him because of what he was. He was always 100% polite to people but sometimes he wished to be a hundred miles away from it all. So when he came back to London he lived in his own flat, taking time out just to go and eat. He didn't really want to contact anybody.

D.Mc.G: The lyrics of "A Million Miles Away seem a little prophetic now, about sitting in a lonely hotel bar with the blues?

L.M: Yeah, I remember when that song was written. We had played Las Vegas, which is a dreadful place, I hated it then and I hate it now, ‘Tinsel Town’. We did a tour supporting Deep Purple and Fleetwood Mac in these big auditoriums and we’d come back to the hotel and go into the bar, with poker machines and casinos all over the place. You couldn't get into the place unless you had a jacket and tie on. We explained that we were residents, so we would sit down there but we’d be really pissed off with the place, the horrible gambling atmosphere going on. Then shortly after that the song came out, "this hotel bar is full of people".

D.McG: How did you hear of Rory's death?

L.M:I was at home here in Edinburgh one Friday afternoon when the ‘phone rang. It was a guy from ‘The Scotsman’, one of the local papers. He had heard that there was somebody from the Rory Gallagher Band staying here in Scotland, so he phoned a friend of mine and he then contacted me. He called me and asked had I got anything to say about it? I told him I was poleaxed by it - terrible! I was really upset. Half of me said it can't be true, there's something wrong here. But I was watching T.V. that night, M.T.V news and it said "Rock Star dies", and they showed a piece of footage from one of the concerts we did. I saw myself on stage then it hit me that it was true after all. I telephoned Donal the next day but I couldn't get to talk to him but then he called me back on the Sunday. I remember him saying "he won't have the blues anymore". He asked me to come over and play at the funeral. I arrived at the hotel in Cork and we went up to his mother’s house. She was great, fantastic, totally in command of the whole situation. Gerry and Brendan were there as was Mark Feltham and Tom O'Driscoll.

D.McG: How would you sum up your time with Rory and the band?

L.M: I'd love to do it all again, I really would! I miss the guy. As a person I'll certainly miss him. I go to the continent quite a lot to play and there’s a huge amount of respect there for him. People come up to me and bring albums to sign and stuff like that. It's not just me who thinks like that, a whole lot of other people think the same way. The guy is missed all around the world. It's very rare to come across someone like Rory, someone who is musically brilliant, and yet commands such an audience as well. He stuck to his principals of blues roots music. I don't think I'll ever find anybody like that again.

D.McG: Have you heard any of the remastered material?

L.M: Donal gave me the B.B.C. sessions and I've heard remixes of Blueprint and Tattoo. On a couple of tracks I couldn't believe what I was listening to. They've beefed up the bass drum, beefed up the guitar, the Hammond organ. It's the same band but not the same band if you know what I mean. Working to a schedule I don't think Rory had time to mix the albums properly at the time. There wasn't enough room on vinyl to put the extra tracks on. A track called Tucson Arizona from Tattoo is a great song. Written by Link Wray, it's a country number that Rod de' Ath plays accordion on. You'll love it! It's Dylan meets The Band and it doesn't sound like Rory at all - Wonderful!!

Dino McGartland

TED McKenna: 'Remembering Rory'

Ted McKenna played with Rory on three albums: Photo-Finish, Top Priority and Stagestruck. In this exclusive interview he talks about his fond memories of his time spent with Rory.

Dino McGartland: What were you doing just prior to joining the Rory Gallagher Band?

Ted McKenna: Well after the Sensational Alex Harvey Band split up in 1978 I did a tour with Zal Cleminson and Chris Glenn (SAHB) Billy Rankin (who later joined Nazareth) and a guy called Leroy Jones who had worked with the American band The Tubes. We did a British and Scandinavian tour but then decided to pack it in because in my opinion, Chris, Zal and I had been together for quite a long time and we needed a break from each other.

Shortly after the SAHB split, Alex and I went to a club somewhere in North London for a drink, and to see an old pal of his play who he knew from the Hamburg days. While we were at the gig I bumped into an engineer I knew from Air Studios. He told me that another old friend of mine, Colin Fairley, a Scottish ex drummer was working as an engineer with Rory Gallagher, and apparently Rory was struggling to find a drummer, he’d gone through quite a number. Of course I was interested and the next day I received a ‘phone call from Colin who said why don’t I come down for a play with Rory, and that’s just what I did. I had a bit of a blow with Gerry and Rory down at Air Studios and then went up to Scotland, where I got the call from Don Gallagher. He asked me if I’d like to come down to London that week to rehearse for the Macroom Festival in Ireland, so in Typical Rory fashion I went tearing down there and ended up playing in Ireland the same week!

D.McG: Were you familiar with Rory’s music at that point?

T.McK: When I was about seventeen I used to be in a band in Scotland that supported Taste. It was the first tour they did with Eric Kitteringham and Norman Damery, and I’ve still got a photograph of the band that Rory signed for me!!
We played a gig called “The Place” in Edinburgh, He was doing blues but he was also doing things like Summertime and a kind of jazz thing. One of the memories I have of that gig was that The Place didn’t have a dressing room so Rory was in the car park with us. Our vans were parked up together and he was putting on his brown suede boots, his plaid tartan shirt and his jeans right there in the car park with us!

At that time he struck me as being a nice guy, he was really nice to us. After that I heard about him playing the Isle of Wight festival and eventually when I was doing quite a lot of touring in Germany with the Sensational Alex Harvey Band, I would see Rory Gallagher posters up all over the place!

D.McG: What are you’re memories of that first gig with Rory?

T.McK: Well, I’ve actually got a tape of the first rehearsal. It was quite high-energy stuff compared to what I’d been used to, it was really taking the paint off the walls when we were going at it!! I was still learning the material and had a big pile of tunes to learn and only one week to rehearse with them. I was actually learning the stuff on the plane on the way over! Even after all the rehearsals I hadn’t prepared myself for what the live gig would be like. The energy levels went up another six gears and it just took my head off!!

Rory hadn’t played for a while and I don’t think had gigged for a while either so when we up there it was really a very high-powered feeling, the adrenalin was really pumping! We went down in Donal’s Jensen, which I thought was real rock’n’roll. We got up on the stage and by the end of the gig I had blisters on my hands, it was great - quite uphill.

D.McG: Did it come to you as a surprise to see Rory’s double life on and off the stage? Here was this quiet soft- spoken person and yet when he went onstage he was completely different.

T.McK: It struck me that the amount of personality and drive he had when he performed was quite different from the mild and gentle person off-stage, when he was a real gentleman. Everyone that knew him would say the same I’m sure, but when he put on the guitar and went in front of an audience there was a complete turn-a-round in the way he drove. He went from being quite laid back to being very forward, very aggressive, which is what rock’n’roll is all about.

D.McG: I get the impression that there was no time to ‘take it easy’ in the sense that all eyes where on him and you were constantly looking out for a hand signal to tell you when to stop and start. Did you have to concentrate the whole time while on stage?

T.McK: Yeah, yeah. You tend to do that .I mean I wasn’t used to doing that with the SAHB for instance, because we had a set stage performance and I drove the band along. The difference with Rory was that I had to watch out for the intros. The thing about Rory was he used to wear the audience out!!! That was his thing, he would turn around to me and say “lets take the tempo up a bit” because he just felt that the audience were a bit complacent and he would do anything he could to try and get them wound up and get them going, and that would mean sometimes playing songs slightly faster than they were recorded. So I was always prepared for the changes.

D.McG: Would you say he was a perfectionist when he was recording?

T.McK: Well he was looking for a particular thing. To say ‘perfectionist’ is maybe a way to describe it, but it was more like he was looking for a particular ingredient in the way he wanted the track to sound. Sometimes, when he’d had a chance to listen to them all, he’d end up going with a take that he’d done earlier, one that he felt was right for him. He took it very seriously, especially if he was going to overdub guitars. He obviously wanted to have one that had the right feel to it.

One of my favourite tracks on Photo Finish is ‘Last of the Independents’, because to me that always summed up Rory. I always felt that song was about him because of how he wouldn’t bend to the will of record companies or he wouldn’t bend to people’s views of what they thought he should do. He always stood for what he believed in, what he believed about the blues and rock’n’roll. He would always be true to that. Every time I hear that song I always think of Rory.

D.McG: He always had the tag of ‘Hard working Rory’; it must have been tough having to be on the road a lot. What was it like on the road with Rory?

T.McK: For me it was a very happy band. At the time I was with Rory there was Gerry, Phil McDonnell (who is still a great friend of mine) doing the sound, Pete Collins was the Tour Manager, and with Tom O’Driscoll as the Road Crew, and sometimes Donal being there, it felt like we were a close family. We always had great nights between gigs. On our nights off we’d all get together in a room with a carry out and a few bottles of beer, and we’d just sit, play cards and have a great time. It was good company; there was a good sense of humour and good craic!!

D.McG: What were the audiences like in America, and had you a favourite country that you like to visit?

T.McK: When I think back, there are so many gigs in the States that I enjoyed; we used to play some great clubs like Mississippi Nights, or The Mocambo in Toronto, or some great gigs in New Orleans; I used to love those club gigs.
When it came to Rory, and the hard rocking blues we were performing, the American audience used to really whoop it up; it’s what it’s all about - beer drinkin’ and hell raisin’!!

D.McG: So why did you decide to leave the band?

T.McK: I just felt that to progress as a drummer I had to keep moving and changing. As much as I loved Rory I felt that it was time to do something different. It was really quite amicable, I went out for a walk with Rory one night and let him know that I wanted to leave the band, that something was calling me in a different direction. After I left I kept moving, I worked with various people like Gary Moore and Michael Schenker. In retrospect I haven’t always been happy in the various bands I’ve played in but I’ve always been very fond of the period I spent with Rory

D.McG: Did you still keep in touch over the years?

T.McK: Oh Yeah. I went down to see him play at the Town & Country club and I came back stage and was talking to Rory and Donal about how good it was seeing the band again and that they were really cooking, but I got the impression from the conversation that Gerry and Brendan were thinking of leaving and that Rory might like to play with me again. Sometime later Donal called and asked me down for a play. It was 1991 and it was great just to be around the guys again, just like the old days! Donal gave me copies of Fresh Evidence and the other later albums which I’ve still got, but it never really happened; just not meant to be I guess.

D.McG: Were you aware that Rory had been ill at this stage?

T.McK: Well at the time I went down there Rory was still fine as far as I could make out, but sometime before that I went to see him play in Glasgow. It was at the time when he asked Gerry and Brendan to play some gigs with him even though they had officially left the band. I was chatting to Gerry, Brendan, and Tom O’Driscoll in the dressing room before the gig when in came Rory and said “Edward” (laughs) it was the only time he’d called me that. The thing was, I was amazed at how he looked, and when they went onstage I stood at the front and couldn’t believe how he performed; he didn’t do anything! He just sang the tunes and when it came to the solos he’d just nod to the keyboard player; he never took it by the scruff of the neck like he usually did and that’s when I sensed there was something wrong. I saw Donal at the bar later but I didn’t know what to say, I felt really bad, it was like “What’s wrong with him? “ What the hell’s the matter”?

D.McG: It must have come as a terrible shock to you when you heard of his death?

T.McK: I had heard that he wasn’t well, I saw that photograph of him in Q magazine and I thought that he looked really ill; in fact it really shook me when I saw it because he looked twice his age! I couldn’t believe it. When I heard of his death I was very very sad. A few weeks before he died someone had given me some video footage of gigs that I had played with Rory that I had never, ever seen. I was absolutely knocked out and really chuffed to see some of these gigs; it brought back all the memories. Within a month I heard that he had died and it was such a blow to me after watching those tapes!

I am always thinking back to the times we had. I proudly carry one of the tour brochures from our travel agent, it says ‘Rory Gallagher Band’ on it, and it has my name in gold. It’s leather bound and contains a gig list. I occasionally show it to some of my students and say now that’s a tour! (laughs).

It takes in New Orleans, Austin Texas, Houston, St. Louis, Memphis, Nashville, Atlanta, New York, Boston, Albany and Toronto. That whole time we worked our arses off; we were on the road all the time. We’d finish an American tour and then go straight to Germany, Australia, New Zealand, and then do a British tour then back to America, It was pretty much on going all the time and I loved it, I was really happy.

D.McG: Did you ever think that Rory missed out? Here was one of the all time greats but at the same time he never truly got the recognition he deserved.

T.McK: When I joined and found out the story about the album that he did that was scrapped. I can’t remember who told me the story but apparently after he’d ordered the record company to scrap the album he was getting out of a taxi at the Sunset Hotel in Los Angeles (My favourite hotel) when he trapped his thumb in the door, it happened on the same night.

My interpretation of the incident was that he didn’t want somebody else interpreting what his music should sound like. To a record company, when you had a guy that looked and sounded like Rory you had a million dollar gold bar in your hand! Trouble is the record companies would then have wanted to smooth off his rough edges and make him more marketable to the general public, and Rory would have objected to changing his identity for any reason.

So if you ask “Did he miss out?” I’d say no because he wouldn’t have wanted to play the game thing because the record company would end up telling you who to have in your band, and you should have a couple of girl singers and you should have this and you should have that and before you know it everything’s changed, like it happened to Joe Cocker. With Rory’s looks, which are very important to a record company, and his guitar playing he could have been absolutely huge but that’s not what his music was about, that’s not what Rory was about. It always struck me that the cover of the Photo Finish album was a very glamorous one, which was symptomatic of the record company’s drive to commercialise Rory. He wouldn’t have any of it though. I often wonder what happened to that album; I can’t imagine what it sounded like!

D.McG: What are you doing now? Are you still involved in the music business?

T.McK: Yes, I work at North Glasgow College as a lecturer. The main thing I teach is music promoting and managing. Which is basically trying to help young guys to know what the music business is all about. I have to teach them from painful experience all the aspects of the music business and all the practical things.

I’m almost full time but I’m also putting a band together. I’m trying to do in Scotland what used to be going on when I was growing up. Back then there were venues that had live music. As you know that’s one of the things that has died out to a great extent because of discotheques and all that; it’s totally undermined the work for live musicians. I hope it’s going to develop into something worthwhile; the guys I’m working with are local guys, and all top pros.

At this point the interview finished but Ted left me with this final story, which summed up Rory.

Back to that first audition at Air Studios after we’d finished playing, Rory, Gerry, and Donal carried my drums down the stairs for me!! I said “You guys don’t have to do that” and they said, “Get out of it, we’re real people, we don’t piss about” It was so unusual and unlike what the rock and roll scene was like. I knew then that Rory was still the same guy who was pulling his boots on in the car park all those years before.

Thanks to Ted McKenna for being so open and helpful with this interview.
Dino McGartland.

THE TONY ARNOLD INTERVIEW:25/6/99

Those of you who have recently bought any of Rory's back catalogue will no doubt be aware that they have been re mastered by Tony Arnold at Courthouse Facilities, Dorset. I was quite lucky to be able to talk to Tony while he took a break from his busy schedule. He gave me an insight into his own background and how he got involved in re mastering Rory's work:

My parents on my mother’s side of the family were all jazz musicians and my uncle played for Ted Heath, so I was brought up with a lot of music around me.
My grandmother would have old country records by artists like Jimmy Rogers and The Carter Family and just after the war we’d tune in to the Everly Brothers show, which was broadcast on American Forces Network.

My mother bought me a guitar and I started to buy records by Les Paul, not because he played guitar, but because of the quality of his recording! I became what they call a good local guitarist; outside of my town I was lousy! I used to record every band I played for because I was becoming increasingly interested in that side of things, until finally one night the bandleader suggested I take up recording instead of playing because that's where my talent lay! I gave up the guitar, took up recording and within a few years I had a 24-track studio.

Some of my old friends called me up, people like Andy Summers, Robert Fripp, Peter Green and Greg Lake and I became known as a ‘guitar player’s producer’.

I first met Rory through a friend called *Phil Morrall who knew Donal. Rory was slightly frustrated with his recordings; he said that there were places he wanted to go and he felt he wasn't getting there. That’s how he described it to me. Phil rang me one day and told me Rory was an admirer of my work and could tell I understood the guitar, and was it OK for them to come over and see me. On the day of the meeting Rory and I just sat and talked for a few hours before he said how great it would be for us to work together, and I said that I’d love to. I was really looking forward to it as I thought that Rory had the same musical education as I’d had, and the results of our work would be really good. When I heard the news that he’d died I was really sad, I would have loved to have worked with him personally. I was staggered when Donal rang me sometime later to ask me to remix all Rory’s albums, he said it was what Rory wanted. All the stuff was brought in which was when I got to know Tom O’Driscoll, a lovely man and like a Brother to Rory.

Dino McGartland: When you got the call from Donal asking to re master the albums, did you have to listen to them all first?

Tony Arnold: That’s something I always insist upon. I have done re mastering work now for 10-12 years on some very good projects including the King Crimson box set, which won a Grammy. My take on it is that yes we could change something and gain another fifty listeners but we’d lose another fifty in the process so why do it? If I hear something that communicates I won’t want to alter it so I insist on hearing the original material first. I’d like to take this opportunity to say that I didn't re-mix or re-master this material for the simple reason that the guy got it right in the first place!

I mainly remixed the bonus tracks, which I sometimes thought well maybe I could do a better job on some of these, not because they weren’t done right but nobody knows the circumstances they were recorded in. It’s much easier for me to do a better job nowadays as there’s so much more technology available than 20 years ago. So I feel it’s up to me to decide whether a track warrants my attention.

What I'm looking forward to more than anything is the acoustic album. I think Rory would love this album and I know he will be doing something that he often does and that’s look over me when I do it! I sometimes think it isn’t me making the decisions, and I’ll often say out loud “OK Roy if that’s what you want, that’s what you’re gonna get!” Tom thinks my control room is the best room in the world because he can sit in there for a while and be around Rory; there’s definitely a thing going on in there and its fantastic!

There are two things that are great about Rory Gallagher which I want the world to know about: When working on re-mastering a track from another artist, if you listen to the vocal track only, all you hear is the voice and if you listen to the lead guitar track only, all you hear is the guitar because they’ve been recorded separately and mixed together later. When you listen to Rory nine times out of ten you can hear the lot – drums as well, which tells me that those tracks went down live – they were actual live performances, so that when fans buy his music there’s no cheating – it’s Rory!

The other thing is how Rory’s voice and his guitar are like two different people working together, of all the artists I’ve ever worked with I’ve never come across this before or since; BB King talks about his guitar Lucille, I think Rory’s guitar should have a name, they were like brothers, absolutely incredible!

D.McG: Some tracks sound as if they have a completely different guitar or vocal track?

T.A. Rory was frustrated whenever he went into a studio because never had an engineer who was totally into what he was doing, so he would persevere with what he had and make the best of it because that was the man. You could tell that because the master tapes and the boxes they are kept in are not very well cared for. Sometimes I’d pick up a box and it wouldn't even tell me what songs are in it, no track sheets, nothing. No one told me what was used on the original, and there was no indication. I would have to sit down and listen to everything including the guitar solos and try and find which one was actually used on the original. So I've got ten versions of a song and I keep playing it and suddenly one moves me, and I think, I'll go with this one. My point is, it may be different from what they've got, but in a way it ends up like a bonus track, because there's a different guitar solo on it this time.

Trouble is, if I spend too much time listening to all this stuff, it could end up where the job is not enjoyable; it becomes a chore for me having to sit through it all. As with most things in life, the more I'm enjoying it the more I'll do a good job of it!

D.McG: Are you doing all the albums? How do you feel about doing Tattoo?

T.A. They're all here, the last four. Donal asked me to totally remix Tattoo because Rory was never happy with anything mix wise. That is the same with every musician, they're never happy. You have to turn to him or her and say, “let go.” because every musician is a perfectionist.

D.McG: What about the acoustic album?

T.A. Rory did various little things that we've discovered. We found one where he went to a radio station for an interview and he took his Martin D35 with him and he sat and played a few songs. Rory was a shy guy and he didn't feel comfortable unless he had a guitar in his hand so he’d play and that would make him more confident. On this interview he's playing a few songs that he loved which never got on record. So far we've found seven tracks. Often he'd finish a studio session and have a few hours left so he’d lay down a few things that he liked. Sometimes you found these odd acoustic tracks, so I'm looking for gold!

We've found several that I'm happy with, they're all mono, but the main performer is Rory. On a couple of tracks the singing and the song are more important to him than what he’s doing on the Martin, on others like ‘Unmilitary Two Step’ his guitar work is fabulous, he could play in that beautiful Mississippi John Hurt style.

What we've got at the moment is a gold ring. But we can't give it out without the presentation box, and that's what we've got to make - this presentation box. It's the most important album of my life!

*Phil Morrall was Rory's live sound engineer / tour manager. He was tragically killed in a motor accident in October 1997 just days after a Rory tribute Concert.

Dino McGartland